Secular v Christian Dead-Horse Thread (ask if bands are Christian here)

[BillyBo]

alright. enough already. it's a dead horse. but if you must keep beating it...

For anyone who wishes to raise a topic about a certain person, place, or thing and question or comment about said subject(s) being Christian or not, please post here and only here. This will also serve as the stomping grounds for dkst's rants about why or why not there is or isn't any such thing as "secular" or "Christian" in regards to the noun in question.  and others, not singling you out, bro. haha.

Any and all topics, previous and henceforth, will be locked. All material that pertains to the description above will be discussed in this topic only as discussed and agreed upon by the mods and admins.

Thanks,
CDL Administration

[king_of_fools]

Is this a Christian thread?

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[BillyBo]

THAT'S the kind of thing that needs to be discussed here, and only here.

what's a "Christian" thread, KOF?

[dkst0426]

This will also serve as the stomping grounds for dkst's rants about why or why not there is or isn't any such thing as "secular" or "Christian" in regards to the noun in question.  and others, not singling you out, bro. haha.

Any and all topics, previous and henceforth, will be locked. All material that pertains to the description above will be discussed in this topic only as discussed and agreed upon by the mods and admins.

How about deleting the topic of origin, so it doesn't clog up the board? I can just see all these locked topics interspersed with other topic, and it'll make navigation confusing.

[BillyBo]

well... if any new topics are raised, i have a feeling we'll merge them with this one and delete the new topic. but up til now, the locked ones will remain so the same questions about the same bands/artists/people don't get raised again.

good point tho.

[kbrand]

I am confused about the reason for this pinned thread, and the locked topics.  Isn't this a Christian Forum?  But we are restricted about where we can post topics about Christian stuff because it is a Dead Horse?  Doesn't make sence to me. 

[dkst0426]

 

Exactly how long have you been a member of this site and its previous incarnation?

[kbrand]

Exactly how long have you been a member of this site and its previous incarnation?

I have been a member of this board for a long time, but I never paid any attention to any thread that didn't have anything to do with a downloadable mp3.  If you notice my post history, my first actual post was January 1 2007.  On that day, I actually ventured out from the download section.  So I would consider myself new to discussions.  No debate in the download section .  I just find it humorous that this is a Christian site, but we are limited to what Christian things we can talk about.  Heck Jacobs Dream was looking for opinions about something, because his church thought one thing and he didn't know what to think.  He came here for guidance, and his thread was locked.  Just doesn't seem right in my opinion.  Actually pathetic is more like it.  A brother comes for help and the thread gets locked....WOW!

[dkst0426]

Just doesn't seem right in my opinion.  Actually pathetic is more like it.  A brother comes for help and the thread gets locked....WOW!

Then take it up with the mods. Don't resort to labelling a staff action as "pathetic" out in the open. That's bush-league.

[king_of_fools]

I am confused about the reason for this pinned thread, and the locked topics.  Isn't this a Christian Forum?  But we are restricted about where we can post topics about Christian stuff because it is a Dead Horse?  Doesn't make sence to me. 

you aren't restricted from talking about Christian anything anywhere .. we did however limit the number of "debated" topics to 1 ... this one, you can debate whether a Christian band is Christian or not and vice versa, and dkst can claim that there isn't such a thing as Christian or secular here as BillyBo already said.

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[kbrand]

Just doesn't seem right in my opinion.  Actually pathetic is more like it.  A brother comes for help and the thread gets locked....WOW!

Then take it up with the mods. Don't resort to labelling a staff action as "pathetic" out in the open. That's bush-league.

My apologies, you are right, that was not very apropriate. 
I did mention it to The Mod, didn't seem to care.
that is why I posted here.

Ok, after thinking about this a bit, I thought instead of complaining, I should offer suggestions.  Why not make a Child Board for this kind of discusion.  The reason I don't think an individual thread will work is because people's thoughts, concerns, and questions will get lost in and amongst the clutter.  Take the locked threads move them into the child board, and the discussions can continue.  If people don't want to comment about how Christian a band is, they don't have to, but those that have questions about such topics are free to discuss.

[maddog]

Ok, after thinking about this a bit, I thought instead of complaining, I should offer suggestions.
[/quote]

thank God your a decent christian.

well, im with him on that idea, otherwise we get thorns then putting up the little picture saying, swing it back on thread.

i can understand not getting off, but then if its not gonna be a broad topic, then there should be more, child boards would make it look neat.

now, to the music, well, dkst, if you dont want to call it christian music ( ive lost my agreeance with you on this subject), there has to be a way of identifying the difference between the 2. you simply cannot marilyn manson and mortal on the same radio station, one is consisted of chirstian members, one is satanic, there is a difference, so enlighten me and tell me how to label the difference between the 2.

on the, should bands with christian members be allowed up, well, i feel, if their lyrics are decent  in the sense of God, then do it, eg, U2, lifehouse, but something like story of the year, clearly isnt talking God, but yet christian members, well, no.

[dkst0426]

you simply cannot marilyn manson and mortal on the same radio station,

I've heard Manson and Switchfoot on the same station. Not quite the same, but close enough, right? That's what Mix stations do, after all.

now, to the music, well, dkst, if you dont want to call it christian music ( ive lost my agreeance with you on this subject), there has to be a way of identifying the difference between the 2.

one is consisted of chirstian members, one is satanic, there is a difference, so enlighten me and tell me how to label the difference between the 2.

The premise is that the music has to be labeled, and that's where we separate. Music is music, and really, the only particular label I care about is whether (according to my own personal standards) it's something I'd want to listen to or if it's something I'd really rather not listen to.

I don't base my choices on the faith of an artist. As I've touched on elsewhere: if a song and/or artist becomes popular, of far more interest to me is why they've become popular. If a particular set of lyrics is resonating with a particular group of people (esp. teens), I want to know why. The music choice is merely a symptom of something that goes deeper. You see, people in general may pick up on a song just because of its beat, but I firmly believe that ultimately it's the lyrics and the message that keep people coming back for more. Therefore, it stands to follow that there HAS to be a particular group of people identifies with a particular song/artist. That just seems to be far more productive to me than speculating about what religion an artist is and "discussing" their level of faith here.

[miraged]

for me, i'm shallow.

i hardly pay attention to lyrics, maybe captions, but not all....

i like beat and melody. that's why i like linkin park. however, their lyrics aint good, that's as far as i know. 

but in general i hardly pay attention to the lyrics... bad, i know.

[kbrand]

The premise is that the music has to be labeled, and that's where we separate. Music is music, and really, the only particular label I care about is whether (according to my own personal standards) it's something I'd want to listen to or if it's something I'd really rather not listen to.

We have talked about this before, but the above comment made me think a bit. In your MP3 player, or in itunes or what ever you use, what genre do you assign to your music?

[maddog]

this is how i do it(attached)
i dont think we should call hawk nelson christian punk n blink 182 secular punk, their both punk groups, and ill put it in the same folder, but what i was getting at is, what is a way of telling the difference of religions of bands? i mean, ill take a view of ability of difference from you, simply if you can provide an alternative. i mean, what can we call all the artists on here?
their level of faith thing, well, im over it, my concern out of it all though would be that, their personal relationship with God. the thing that does upset me is that it isnt a clear message of Jesus, and their on the platform that can reach so many, and they dont use it.

them being on the same radio station, well, sorry, it was a mere way of trying to get across my point in clarity, looks like it collapsed.

[kbrand]

maddaog, I see your point.  It is ashame that they aren't using the powerful influence of music to its full potential, however in there defence, people may be more acceptant of lyrics that are not so "in your face".  I don't know if you understand my point or not.  For example...I have a friend who I worked with that would tell me about how he would slam the door on door to door evangelists.  However, after about 6 months of working with him, he started asking me questions about where I went to Church and what I believed and stuff like that.  After a bit, God let me share my testimony with him, and a few weeks later, he came to know Christ as his personal savior.  Both ways of witnessing work, but they work differently.  Now, I don't know if it is a decision that bands make or not, but I think if people hear, lets say Hawk Nelson, they may be led to ask questions, or maybe even explore more bands that are more direct.  I don't know if I am getting my thoughts across, or not   

As far as the genre thing goes, I am almost the opposite.  I am a organisation freak.  I have a lot of different Genres on my ipod.  Punk, Christian Punk, and so on.  I do it because for me it is easier for me to find what I am looking for.  I wish you could use sub-genres on mp3 players as well, but as far as I know you can't...hehehe I am probably the only one that would use sub-geners anyway.

[maddog]

oh no, i like sub genres, but my way is fairly general, but i can find more artists when im in the right mood.

you see, that stuff works on a personal basis. listening to switchfoot, non christians wont raise questions, cause they see nothing different between the christian and secular artists. their lyrics are near the same, and so they dont stick out. really, it dont loose sleep over it, but still, people cant go up to some big shot band and ask questions. in fact, alot of christian artists dont even make a Christ statment on their websites. dont say anything relating to them being christians.

really, alot of so called christian bands are near similar music and lyrics  wise as the secular artists, so where are they questions on them?

now, it doesnt bother me 1 bit at all, but im just stating a view on it.

[kbrand]

Yea, I would agree.  when I was mentioning about asking question, I was think more along the lines of a friend asking about the band, not really asking the band themselves.  But I agree. 

I wasn't able to checkout Relient K on the Warped Tour, but I was curious what songs they played, and if they were any different on stage due to their audience being a bit out of the norm for them.

[dkst0426]

We have talked about this before, but the above comment made me think a bit. In your MP3 player, or in itunes or what ever you use, what genre do you assign to your music?

I don't, because I'm not an organization freak.    To be honest, I have never really paid attention to that designation, anyway, because when I put together playlists or pick songs, I don't run a search by genre. Nice try at pointing out an inconsistency, though.

[kbrand]

[Nice try at pointing out an inconsistency, though.

;D I was honestly curious...When I search for music, I go directly to genre (possibly because I like everything from Punk to Opera)...Just noting differences, not trying to point out Inconsistancy.  I am sorry you took that the wrong way. 

[bigfritas]

There's a difference between proclaiming yourself 'Christian' and making music for God's glory ...

In all honestly, I'm trying to get into such bands like Underoath and Norma Jean but I have a hard time doing so when I don't really see Christ being portrayed at all ...

[maddog]

There's a difference between proclaiming yourself 'Christian' and making music for God's glory ...

In all honestly, I'm trying to get into such bands like Underoath and Norma Jean but I have a hard time doing so when I don't really see Christ being portrayed at all ...

well, the artists claim to have deeper meanings to their songs.

but, underoath are pretty open, its hard not to see how its related to God.

norma jean, they are just too good, but i can see the stuggle search for the christian based lyrics

[Josh]

As far as music goes, I think if you go about it the right way almost all music can be beneficial -- if you critically engage the lyrics. I'm not saying you should just go out any listen to everything even if it causes you to stumble, but rather that you need to take an objective look at the lyrics -- why do they think like that? Are there others that think like that? How can I witness to people that think like that?

And not ALL songs even need to be picked apart (though you should still use discernment of course).. there are probably a lot of secular songs that I agree with more than some "Christian" songs.

Secondly, even secular bands, I think, can display the glory of God just by being His creation and doing creative works.

For me, it's not so much the content of the lyrics but the quality. If they're well written I'll listen to them. I don't agree with everything all the bands write, but luckily I have a brain for that

While I'm on that topic, I wish Christianity was a higher call to excellence. It's amazing at how many poor and mediocre bands there are in the Christian market, but we settle for it "because their heart is in the right place". I'm sure half of the active CCM bands right now wouldn't have even been signed if they weren't Christian. That's why I always like it when I see a group of Christians making music in the secular market and succeeding -- they're actually relying on their talent and skill rather than a label to propel them into the spotlight.

[mlyss]

I didn't know where to post it, because the "Artists not allowed" topic in the "Rock/alternative" section is closed.

"Thrice" appear on the cover of the "Relevant" magazine: http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000936CQ.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Is this a reason enough to modify policy re them?